Writing Historical Fiction, with Natalie Morrill
Our own lives are great sources of inspiration. There may even be experiences from our past that aren’t just enough to inspire a scene, but an entire novel!
Take The Ghost Keeper, written by Natalie Morrill, which came from a memory she wasn’t even sure she remembered right.
But that memory, some research, and a submission to the HarperCollins UBC Prize for Best New Fiction, was enough to help Natalie rise from her MFA to become a published novelist.
Writing Historical Fiction, with Natalie Morrill
Listen to learn:
- How to write a book in a perspective you haven’t lived yourself
- The stakes involved in writing historical fiction
- About the path to publishing via winning contests
- How you don’t have to travel to do research on your novel setting
Here's a sneak peek of today's episode...
[04:30 ] And it sort of came to me then that if I were to look back on my life, say, 20 years from then, what would I regret not doing? I just kind of realised I would regret not taking my writing seriously at this point.
[10:13] And they pick their sort of top three picks, basically, for it. And I was one of those top three.
[11:46 ] And I should say that, by the ending, I kind of meant like the last hundred pages, it was a chunk.
[16:45] As a small child, I couldn't really look into it or see anything, but I remember on at least one occasion, maybe multiple occasions, one of my parents kind of lifting me up to look inside.
[19:13] So I started looking up that cemetery on the internets and, first of all, it was exactly the way I remembered it. The photos were exactly as I remembered them.
[22:54] Well, that's kinda what I realised, that on their side, they knew that that was the kind of book that's sold.
[24:44] I know, it's the worst. Don't tell any of the people offering travel grants or anything.
[28:04] When I said that working with Rhea Tregebov was pretty essential in terms of me creating this book, that was a big part of it, in a way.
Links from today’s episode:
University of British Columbia MFA in Creative Writing
Cooke McDermid Literary Management
Writing Historical Fiction, with Natalie Morrill: The Resilient Writers Radio Show -- Full Episode Transcript
Intro:
Well, hey there, writer. Welcome to the Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas, and this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. Because—let's face it—the writing life has its ups and downs, and we wanna not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page.
This podcast is for writers who love books, and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who wanna learn and grow in their craft, and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books, and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them, writers who wanna spend more time in that flow state, writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community in this crazy roller coaster ride we call “the writing life.” We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives, and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, writer, I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.
Rhonda Douglas:
Well, hey, there we are here today with Natalie Morrill—and Natalie, do you say “more-ill” or “moral”?
Natalie Morrill:
<laugh> Oh, gosh. People ask me this. I say “moral”, but I sometimes say “more-ill” so that people hear the ending of my name. Otherwise, I tend to say “moral.”
Rhonda Douglas:
But you are moral. The moral of the story, this is Natalie. Let me just introduce Natalie to you. So she's got an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of British Columbia. We went to the same program, which is awesome.
Natalie Morrill:
Oh, that's cool.
Rhonda Douglas:
And her fiction and poetry has been published in Canadian journals and included in the Journey Prize Anthology, which is a really fabulous anthology of a collection of the best stories of the year. She lives in Ottawa, Canada. And I'm really excited because, Natalie, when she was at UBC, she won the HarperCollins UBC Prize for Best New Fiction, which was for her debut novel The Ghost Keeper, which was a World War II saga, which I wanna talk about a little bit. And she teaches creative writing here at a local college called Algonquin. So welcome, Natalie.
Natalie Morrill:
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
Rhonda Douglas:
So, tell us a little bit about your writing journey. Like, when did you first start writing, and then when did you kind of get serious about it?
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. I mean, to be honest, I've always been writing like, it's okay. It's something that I loved doing when I was a kid. It was like what I would do if I had free time, you know? Like, if my parents left me unsupervised, then I would write something <laugh>.
And I was thinking about what it would mean to have a career as a writer, I think pretty early on. But I think everyone around me, you know, as much as they might have loved my writing and supported me, I think they were very much emphasizing, “that's not a real career, Natalie.” You don't make money doing that.
Rhonda Douglas:
You have to have something to fall back on.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah, exactly. You have to have some way of paying the bills, which I think is perhaps a, I don't know, a realistic perspective in some ways. So I went to university not intending to pursue studies in writing. I was kind of just trying to get qualified to do other work that would pay the bills.
I will say, while I was doing my undergrad degree, I ended up focusing more… Not necessarily on creative writing classes at first, but certainly taking more English literature classes than I had initially planned. I just loved talking about stories, and thinking about them and writing about them. And then I did end up getting to take some really wonderful creative writing classes with Carolyn Smart, who was the creative writing teacher at Queens. Who's an amazing poet, yeah, really cool teacher.
Then I took a year off after undergrad. Well, I took a year to work, and I didn't know what I wanted to do next. And it sort of came to me then that if I were to look back on my life, say, 20 years from then, what would I regret not doing? I just kind of realised I would regret not taking my writing seriously at this point. So yeah, I had not planned to attend an MFA program, but I got into UBC’s MFA program, so I moved out west.
And writers sometimes ask me, “do you think you need to do an MFA?” Or, “do you think you need to study creative writing to be a writer?” By no means, I don't think you have to at all. But for me, at that point, it was a really good choice just to focus entirely on my creative writing, and also be surrounded by other writers who were taking their writing very seriously, as well as our instructors who were quite successful in their careers already and could offer a lot of mentorship, in that sense.
So, I did my MFA. It was a really, really positive experience, to be honest. I had a very good experience at UBC. My supervisor was an author named Rhea Tregebov. And she was instrumental in allowing me to write the novel that would be my first novel published.
Rhonda Douglas:
But up until then, though, were you studying poetry?
Natalie Morrill:
No. That’s a good question, because people associate her with poetry, I think.
Rhonda Douglas:
And Carolyn, of course.
Natalie Morrill:
Yes, they're both poets. I'm a very poor poet <laugh>, I'm not a good poet. I've had maybe one or two that I'd be like, “that's a good poem.” But by and large, not really. But Carolyn taught all the creative writing classes at Queens. And, in my experience, she offered really excellent feedback on prose fiction and creative nonfiction as well.
And then Rhea, when I went to UBC, I had not considered her as a supervisor because if I looked up people's bios, if I looked up their writing, she'd written a lot. But most of what I saw was poetry, children's literature. And I think that was kind of how I had placed her in my mind. But when I got there, I was trying to figure out who I wanted to work with.
Rhonda Douglas:
That fit is so important.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. I met her and she was so lovely. I hadn't even thought of her as a potential supervisor. And I went out and got her novel that she had written. I hadn't, I think until that point, realised that she had written a work of literary fiction. And I really loved it. I was like, “I think you would be the perfect supervisor.” So it worked out really, really well.
Rhonda Douglas:
Oh, that's so great. I loved the MFA experience. When people ask me about it, I think, if you can afford it and you don't have to go into debt for it, it's so fabulous. And also, if you're in the right program with the right people, and the situation is right, then it's amazing. You come out as such a different writer, and it's very exciting.
Natalie Morrill:
I'm just so grateful for that experience, personally.
Rhonda Douglas:
Yeah, same. So, tell me about your path to publishing.
Natalie Morrill:
Oh, okay. Well, so as you mentioned, I started this novel at UBC. I got a lot of it done while I was there, but I knew it needed a lot of work. So basically, when I finished my program, I went somewhere where I could get work, where I could pay the bills, but I would still have time to finish this book. I spent, I don't know, almost another year on it. And applied—well, okay. I think this was like the second time, or something, that there had been that HarperCollins UBC Prize.
Rhonda Douglas:
Yeah. And that prize is where, if you're a graduate of UBC, you can send in a manuscript. And when you win the prize, you win publication, right? Or an option for publication.
Natalie Morrill:
Yes, exactly. I guess they don't wanna commit just in case—they don't know what they're gonna get, i guess—but yeah, it's this really extraordinary opportunity, effectively to skip the slush pile at CookeMcDermid, like the literary agency. And then also, once CookeMcDermid kind of picks their shortlist, have editors at HarperCollins look at the work.
So, I knew that that was a good opportunity. I sort of had the deadline for that in my mind to have a draft of my book finished. And I remember finishing it in such a rush. There was so much right at the ending of the story that I hadn't quite figured out with Rhea when I was at UBC.
I was rushing, rushing, rushing that part. But I did submit a version of it, and this would've been in 2014. And they pick their sort of top three picks, basically, for it. And I was one of those top three. And actually, this might not, I don't know, appear in the record anywhere, but that year I didn't win <laugh>.
Rhonda Douglas:
Oh, go on. Oh my God.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. It was this really weird situation where, I mean, I wasn't surprised because I, you know—
Rhonda Douglas:
Because you hadn’t fixed the ending,
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. But if you're in the top three, you get to talk to the editor at HarperCollins, about the book and what they saw in it, and the changes that they thought it might need.
Rhonda Douglas:
Okay. Super helpful, wow.
Natalie Morrill:
So, I got to talk with the editor who had read it at HarperCollins, and she was lovely. She talked about all the things she really liked about it, and then she was like, “so the ending…” and I was like, “yeah, so how did you...” We sort of talked about it, and she was effectively saying, “the ending is the reason I can't take it. It's not working. It sort of feels disconnected. It feels like it's kind of two different books in some ways.”
Rhonda Douglas:
And you knew that, when she said that you were like, “damn.”
Natalie Morrill:
Yes. I think I had maybe thought that that was something I could get away with fixing later <laugh>. They'd be like, “oh, this is so wonderful.” Surely, they won't notice.
Rhonda Douglas:
They'll be so enraptured with the first three quarters, they won't notice.
Natalie Morrill:
And I should say that, by the ending, I kind of meant like the last hundred pages, it was a chunk. So, you know, I got that feedback which resonated. It felt very, very true once I heard it. So, I got to work fixing the ending, or coming up, essentially, with a new ending. She didn't tell me what the ending would need, and nor do I think she should have. But I needed to do the work of trying to figure out how the book wanted to end, in a way.
Rhonda Douglas:
And what was the craft challenge there? Was it character development, tying together so many ends, keeping it historically accurate? All of the above? What was it?
Natalie Morrill:
I think it was primarily the second of those. I'd sort of started all of these characters on their journey at the beginning, and I needed the ending to tie into that. It couldn't just be late in act two or something, we're introducing all of these new issues that need to be resolved.
And I think once I saw that opportunity, or saw that the book would be so much more unified and complete if I was able to find a way to do that… I don't know. I remember going on walks. I remember just sitting with it. I remember staring at the ceiling in the bathtub and stuff, and just trying to think of what was there.
It was interesting because I realized in the earlier version of it, I had introduced a new character kind of partway through. And I realized that there was already a character in it who could completely fulfil that role. I didn't need to invent a new character, and it would be much more satisfying if this character who had been introduced earlier on had had a more substantial role at the end.
So I worked on that. I figured that out. And then I sent, not like a proper query, I would say, but just like an email to the agent at CookeMcDermid who had seen it, when I had previously submitted for the prize. And I was like, “hey, I don't know if you remember me.”
Rhonda Doulgas:
“I have this thing. I fixed it.”
Natalie Morill:
And she suggested that instead of going through a normal agenting process or resubmitting it to her, she was like, “well, why don't you submit to the UBC prize again, because that's happening this year.” And so I said, “okay, if that's allowed, I'd love to try again.” So, she encouraged me to do that, and it worked.
Rhonda Douglas:
That year you won.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah.
Rhonda Douglas:
If she hadn't suggested, would it have occurred to you to resubmit, do you think?
Natalie Morrill:
No, I thought that was my chance.
Rhonda Douglas:
Like, “oh, I didn't win.”
Natalie Morrill:
I didn't win. And my prize was getting that feedback from the editor, basically. So yeah, no, I wouldn't have thought of that, but she encouraged me to do that.
Rhonda Douglas:
And I love that. I love the perseverance of it that made the difference. That's so great. So your novel is The Ghost Keeper, and it's a World War II novel. How did you come to that? Like, is there something in your family history? Where did that come from as inspiration?
Natalie Morrill:
Okay. It's a World War II novel kind of—well, I think I'd convinced myself that it's not really a World War II novel. It's like before and after World War II, but—
Rhonda Douglas:
Like, it's the aftermath.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah, which means it's about World War II <laugh>, anyway.
Rhonda Douglas:
I mean, World War II leaves a big shadow, once you introduce it.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. So, when I was growing up, my family lived in Vienna for four years. In Vienna, Austria. So one of the cemeteries that's very central to the story in The Ghost Keeper was quite close to our house, when I was growing up. I guess I was between the ages of six and 10 when we lived there. So when I was in the younger part of that range, I would see the outside of the cemetery.
And just to give you kind of an idea of it, you can't really look into it. It had brick walls all around it. It had a locked gate, in fact, like barbed wire and glass on top of it. It looked more like a prison than a cemetery.
As a small child, I couldn't really look into it or see anything, but I remember on at least one occasion, maybe multiple occasions, one of my parents kind of lifting me up to look inside. And I remember seeing all the gravestones kind of toppled over on top of each other, and vines growing all over it. And my parents explained to me that it was an old Jewish cemetery, and I think they also probably did their best to explain to me why it is the way it is, that it's not open to the public because there's vandalism. Also because there isn't really a community here to look after it anymore.
I think that was probably around the same time that I was first learning about the Holocaust. So, I think what happened to me as a child, was these ideas sort of conflated themselves in my mind. And I think probably for a while as a kid, I even imagined that, like, Jewish people, dying, cemetery.
I sort of was connecting… I think connecting the people who were dead there with the victims of the Holocaust. Which obviously, in a very literal sense, is not true. These are people who died in the 19th century. They had proper burials. They have memorial stones. They were mourned by their community. It was a normal human circumstance for death. Not in any way comparable to the horrors of the Holocaust.
But I think as I kind of realized that as I was getting older, and realizing like, oh my gosh, those are not literally connected in the way that I had maybe imagined as a child. I also recognized that there's still this sort of, I don't know, emotional resonance there, especially because of the way that the cemetery is so neglected, and the reasons that it is the way it is, or that it was the way it was. I think there are some kind of historian activists in Vienna trying to restore it at this point.
So, I think it was while I was at UBC, there was a part of me that was like, “was that even real? Is that just a false memory from when I was seven or something?” So I started looking up that cemetery on the internets and, first of all, it was exactly the way I remembered it. The photos were exactly as I remembered them.
And the website that I got, one of the first websites that I found, was from this historian-slash-activist who's trying to work with these cemeteries. She was being interviewed or something, and she said something like, “oh it's a problem, because the rabbits and the foxes dig up bones.” And I was like, “oh my goodness.” That's like, it's—on a human sense, you know, that's obviously bad, it’s not—
Rhonda Douglas:
But the writer in you kinda goes, “oh man.”
Natalie Morrill:
The writer’s like, “oh man. We are there.”
Rhonda Douglas:
“I could use that.”
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah <laugh>. So, you know, obviously that's not a story in itself. But I think that’s what tugged my heart kind of towards that place and that time. That was kind of where I got the idea from, at least.
Rhonda Douglas:
When the book was getting ready to come out and you were with HarperCollins, and, you know, having conversations about marketing—I'm just curious. It seems like there is a, like, Second World War novel, there was a moment… I dunno if it's gone, ‘cause I still love a really good Second World War novel. You can't get higher stakes. You just put somebody middle of World War Ⅱ and they're gonna make choices. So, did you have conversations related to the nature of the novel and how it would be marketed?
Natalie Morrill:
Did we have conversations about that? I remember seeing a lot of World War II historical fiction works around, and—oh, actually, you know what? I think there was actually some conversation about this in some senses, because my editor, when he was asking for comp titles when we were getting closer to things, I forget exactly what I suggested, but I had a few that I suggested. And, and I just noticed in the marketing copy that he didn't use any of those <laugh>.
Rhonda Douglas:
He was like, “No, we’re going with the Second World War novel.”
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. He was like picking like, The Nightingale and sort of like recent World War II kind of novels. And I think one thing that I was a bit worried about was that between the comp titles he was picking, and between the cover that HarperCollins really wanted to go with for the book, which I think is beautiful, by the way—
Rhonda Douglas:
It’s got this woman folded in a… yeah. And she's got the bright dress.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah, both kinda pointed out when we saw the cover, “great, I love the fact that you can see the woman's face.” That for me is a thing. I don't like that anonymous kind of… But I was like, “it looks like historical romance,” which is a little bit misleading because there's a romance subplot in the book, but it's not really—I wouldn't call it historical romance.
Rhonda Douglas:
I feel like publishers can do a lot with a subplot, though <laugh>. We're riding this, we got a romance subplot, we're riding it.
Natalie Morrill:
Well, that's kinda what I realised, that on their side, they knew that that was the kind of book that's sold. So, I think if they could pitch the book to booksellers and readers as fitting into that genre, then more people would pick it up. I, maybe initially, was a bit worried that not the right reader would pick it up, like somebody who was expecting something else, and then they'd be disappointed with it.
Rhonda Douglas:
Then you get your one star GoodReads reviews.
Natalie Morrill:
Exactly. I think to a certain extent, I just have to trust the marketing people at HarperCollins. They know their stuff, I suppose. But I have had readers mention that like, “oh, I completely thought this was historical romance, and it wasn't. I liked it, but it wasn't that.” I'm not sure exactly how to respond to that as an author. Maybe there's a part of me as an artist that's like, “I want the book to clearly show what it is.” But I guess I recognize the reality as well of, if the person doesn't pick it up, then you know, they're never gonna find it.
Rhonda Douglas:
We want readers, you know?
Natalie Morrill:
Exactly. Yeah.
Rhonda Douglas:
Yeah, for sure. So I'm just curious, when the book was set in Vienna and you're finishing up, did you do the research trip? Did you go back to Vienna?
Natalie Morrill:
Oh, man, no. I wish I had. I would've loved to. Unfortunately, in some ways, I realised that you can do really good research without travelling <laugh>.
Rhonda Douglas:
Really? Don't tell me that.
Natalie Morrill:
I know, it's the worst. Don't tell any of the people offering travel grants or anything. But I think one of the things about doing historical fiction that's set in the 20th century is that there's a lot that you can go from. Basic stuff like maps and memoirs, and things like that. But also in the 20th century, there's video—or not, like, there’d be film footage from that period. I could get film of households in Vienna.
Rhonda Douglas:
Isn't there film of Kristallnacht? I think there is, isn't there?
Natalie Morrill:
Oh my gosh. I mean, I haven't seen film of Kristallnacht in Vienna, and I haven't seen film of it taking place. I've seen certainly lots of photos of the aftermath. But I haven't seen live film of that. Butit's kind of incredible, you know? I'm trying to think of ones that I saw on YouTube. I think somebody had a camera at the front of one of the street cars in Vienna, and it was just sort of going through the streets. And also one that seemed just kind of like a home film in some ways. It was like, a Jewish family at home.
So, you know, between that and photos, and memoirs were a huge thing.
Even just sort of self-published memoirs that people had of like their grandparents or something who had lived through it. It just sort of helped me see what it might have been like to be on the ground, in those moments. So between the little bits and pieces that I remembered from being a kid, and the things that confirmed my suspicions about what it might have been like, and the things that offered new insights, and all of the things that I could use for factual matters. I like to think that the book is pretty faithful to history, and that was done without going to Vienna. So that's how it works.
Rhonda Douglas:
Another time. Another time.
Natalie Morrill:
I know, I know.
Rhonda Douglas:
Another time, another book.
Natalie Morrill:
Somebody used to ask me to come and read the book, or something.
Rhonda Douglas:
Yes, yes. The Vienna Writer’s Festival, Literature Festival. Come on. People
Natalie Morrill:
Surely they… I mean, I imagine they want it in German, but…
Rhonda Douglas:
<laugh> Probably, probably. So, Natalie, you're, you're not Jewish?
Natalie Morrill:
I'm not Jewish, no..
Rhonda Douglas:
So, I've always been curious about this with writers writing about the Second World War, because obviously not everyone swept up in the multiple tragedies of the Second World War was Jewish. But it's so central, and central to what's going on, even in your work. So how do you navigate that? Not being Jewish, but writing a Jewish story? Or a story that has, you know, roots in Jewish history.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. Almost all of the major characters in the book are Jewish, and I would say that in The Ghost Keeper, the concerns of the character are, in a very deep way, kind of connected to his Judaism, his experience as a Jewish man.
When I said that working with Rhea Tregebov was pretty essential in terms of me creating this book, that was a big part of it, in a way. I don't think I would've felt like I could write this story if I hadn't been working with a Jewish first reader, basically. And Rhea is herself Jewish, and she's also worked with people who were writing Holocaust memoirs and lots of people recovering,Yiddish literary works and things.
Rhonda Douglas:
You had a built in quote-unquote sensitivity reader <laugh>.
Natalie Morrill:
Well I mean, yeah.
Rhonda Douglas:
It wasn't that, but it was.
Natalie Morrill:
Exactly. I think what people are looking for when they get a sensitivity reader, maybe was something that I was getting in the supervision process. Because I think I needed someone, basically to (a) call me out if I was getting anything obviously wrong, or it just wasn't resonating. And also to kind of like, you know, give me a read on, “am I sort of doing justice to this issue,” because it's not simply that it’s important.
It's not simply that this is not my personal experience and it's not my ancestors' experience, but it's also that this is a very fraught moment in his history. I feel like there's certain works of historical fiction where if you get it wrong, the nerds will care. And then there's other subjects in historical fiction where, if you're not getting it right, the stakes just seem higher, I guess.
Rhonda Douglas:
We all wanna write the authentic story. But I agree with you about stakes when you're dealing with material like that. For sure.
Natalie Morrill:
It was really helpful to me to have a reader who could give me kind of, well, a read on that. And she was very enthusiastic about the book and very supportive. And yeah, I think it helps in a sense that there have been a lot of Jewish authors who have written about the Holocaust and that experience, already, to a very wide audience.
So not only were those books available to me, but I also kind of was aware that mine was just gonna be one book among many, many, many stories that have been told about this period. So, it's not as if this is in any way claiming to be the authoritative story of what it's like to be a Holocaust survivor. It's just one person's story, perhaps.
Rhonda Douglas:
Thanks for answering that. I just, I feel like these are really important questions, you know.
Natalie Morrill:
They are!
Rhonda Douglas:
We have to wrestle with them, not quite on our own, and we're a little bit afraid to wrestle with them. We're afraid to have the conversation. But it's so important, and I think it's so important also artistically, ‘cause what do we wanna do? We wanna write authentic work. And that's what it's about. It's about, “is this true and authentic?”
So, what are you working on now? Do you have a project at the moment?
Natalie Morrill:
I do. I have a project at the moment that I am trying to finish, desperately trying to finish, for my agent.
Rhonda Douglas:
Is it historical?
Natalie Morrill:
It is! And I didn't want that to be my genre, necessarily.
Rhonda Douglas:
There you are, you're obsessed by it, and you didn't know.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. I get a little cagey talking about it, because I don't know where it's gonna go. Well, I know where it's gonna go plot-wise, but I don't know what the publisher's ultimately gonna say about it or anything. It’s also in a different period.
Rhonda Douglas:
So you surprised yourself. Ok. Earlier or later?
Natalie Morrill:
Earlier.
Rhonda Douglas:
Fun.
Natalie Morrill:
<Laugh> Yes. I realized it’s definitely trickier to put these things together when it’s not all of the documentation that you have in the 20th century. But it's also the stakes are a little bit lower, as I could've mentioned before. It's not in the context of a genocide or anything. It's in, you know, quote-unquote ordinary life for the people at the time.
Rhonda Douglas:
Cool, cool. So, what's your process like? You teach, I'm assuming from September to June, maybe even into July, you're pretty busy, and then maybe it's a little lighter. How do you fit writing into your life? It's a novel, you know, it's not like you take 45 minutes and dash off a poem.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. To be honest, I think I'm still kind of figuring out exactly how it works. Absolutely yes, as college instructors, we get a substantial break at some point in the year. For me, actually, mine, this year, is right now. So I'm gonna be back teaching in July, August. I do get that time and, and that's very precious time to me for my writing, just to know that for the next X days, I don't have to go into work, I can set up my days to prioritize writing entirely. It just feels so good, especially as you mentioned, with something as substantial as a novel where you kind of wanna be like remaining immersed in it.
Rhonda Douglas:
You wanna spend more time in it.
Natalie Morrill:
Yeah. It's so helpful. I need to figure out how to sustainably continue working on the book during the year. I think what I have been doing is trying to find days or half days when I can make those writing days, which is somewhat doable during the semester. I'm not teaching 24-7. I have pretty flexible scheduling for everything else, but I'm sure many teachers can relate to this. It's just very draining to teach.
Rhonda Douglas:
Yeah. You're giving out all your energy all day long.
Natalie Morrill:
So, I sometimes do find during the year that even when I have the time, I don't necessarily have the energy. That is something I'm trying to figure out because I can get a certain amount done, but I wish it was more. If I'm thinking about moving forward in my career, and also just the things that I care about most, I want to find a way to do it a bit more sustainably. Obviously I'm making it work in some way, right now, but—
Rhonda Douglas:
We do, right? That's what we do. We make it work.
Natalie Morrill:
I think ideally there's a version of me in the future that has got it a bit better figured out.
Rhonda Douglas:
Right <laugh>. I like that, that’s great. So, thanks so much for talking to me today, Natalie, I'm just really excited to hear your journey. Because from the outside, if you haven't published a book and you look at a writer who has published a book, particularly in your case, like an award-winning book, and with a major publisher, it seems like the fairy story <laugh>. But it never really is when you dive into it, you know?
Turns out there's actual like, perseverance and a lot of work and figuring out why the book isn’t working and making it work, and this is what we do. This is how we do, this is what we have to do.
Thank you so much for being with me, Natalie.
Natalie Morrill:
Oh, thank you so much for inviting me. It was lovely.
Rhonda Douglas:
It was great to talk to you.
Natalie Morrill:
Same.
Outro:
Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of the Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes. Your ratings and reviews tell the podcast algorithm gods that “yes, this is a great show. Definitely recommend it to other writers.” And that will help us reach new listeners who might need a boost in their writing lives today as well. So please take a moment and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it, and I promise to read every single one. Thank you so much.
