Staying True to the Story, with Sara Power
Links in this Episode:
Story Club with George Saunders
The New Yorker Fiction podcast
Staying True to the Story, with Sara Power – Full Transcript
Intro:
Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome to the Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas. And this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. Because let's face it, the writing life has its ups and downs, and we want to not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page.
This podcast is for writers who love books and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who want to learn and grow in their craft and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them. Writers who want to spend more time in that flow state. Writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community. In this crazy roller coaster write, we call the writing life.
We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome writer, I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.
Rhonda:
Well, hey there Writer, welcome back to another episode of the resilient writers radio show. Today, I'm excited to talk to my friend, Sara Power. We are gonna talk about short stories. So much fun, really looking forward to this conversation.
So Sara Power's writing has appeared in literary journals across Canada, the US and the UK, including the anthology, Best Canadian Stories 2024. Her fiction has been awarded the Malahat Review Open Season Award, the Riddle Fence Fiction Prize. and being a finalist for the Toronto Star Short Story Contest, The New Quarterly Peter Hinchcliffe Award, the Prairie Fire Fiction Award, the Bachelorette's Story Award, and the RBC PEN Canada New Voices Award.
Sara is originally from Labrador, but now lives in Ottawa with her husband, three children, and coonhound. Welcome, Sara. Thanks for being here.
Sara:
Oh, hi Rhonda. So happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Rhonda:
So let's talk short stories. Why do you love the short story as a writer?
Sara:
I'm currently working on a novel and I think I have a greater appreciation for the short story as I'm working on the novel because I feel like with a novel you just have to have this global understanding of this big long convoluted story. And oftentimes with a short story, I can keep the story in my head. I can keep the whole story in my head. Once it starts to take form, I can feel the sparkly bits. I can feel the form. I can feel kind of the arc of the story.
And, you know, I have three teenagers. And so it's a luxury for me to have, you know, extended periods of time. So sometimes I just, you know, I get these little, these bright fresh ideas and I'm like, oh, that would be a story that's page worthy. you know, so to me, it just felt like a good fit for the way my brain kind of works.
Rhonda:
Yeah. I know you're a big George Saunders fan. I think we share that, right?
Sara:
Yes. I love his stories. And I also love his teaching.
Rhonda:
Yes. I love the – I don't know if everyone knows about Story Club with George Saunders, but for my money, that's the place to be for talking about short stories on the internet. So great!
Sara:
Yeah, great podcast. A story Substack as well. Yes, yes.
Rhonda:
Yeah, absolutely. You've got a book out, you've got a collection: Art of Camouflage. And it's about military women, kind of caught up in the, how would we describe this in the pull of the space of the military. Do you wanna talk a little bit about how the stories kind of work together as a collection, right? Cause there's individual stories, but then the collection is always like this curation on usually on a theme. So do you wanna just speak to how it came together for you?
Sara:
Yeah. And yeah, no, thank you for that question. I, you know, I wrote these stories over the course of about two years, maybe a little more than two years. And they were never, like the intent was never to create a collection of short fiction. I was just writing stories, but when it did come together as a collection, my agent described it as a cast of female characters caught in the military's orbit, and I love that. I love that.
You know, I write fiction and all the stories are fiction. There is one story in the collection that might be more. based on, you know, mostly high realism, based on my own experience with my mother. But I definitely lean on just my experiences in the military, my friends' experiences in the military. So, you know, I was in the military for almost 20 years and I went to the military college in Kingston. And then since 2011, I've left the military to be with my kids and to focus on writing. So then I get to be. military spouse and to be exposed, you know, on various postings to other military spouses and military kids. And so it's sort of adjacent to the right story.
You live here now and I'm in Ottawa. And there's lots of military families in Ottawa, but the adjacent kind of unsung heroes of the military. So the home front. And so I write about women in the military, you know, serving members and veterans in the military. Those stories are interesting to me.
But I really love the idea of just like the domestic, that subculture of military families that are functioning often without their military member who might be deployed or, and so, and even just the kids that grow up military, because I did not grow up military. I grew up in the same school from kindergarten to 12 in a rural Labrador community. And so, you know, my kids were in five schools by the time they left elementary school. I mean, they just, because we moved around a lot.
So I'm just, I'm so interested in, wow, what is it like to be like that, that kind of transience and, you know, the, you know, young people and even spouses, they kind of learn to just not, you know, to connect, but to connect quickly, to find your people quickly and to sort of, to always know that that this is temporary. Yeah, so that kind of becomes a bit of a universal story of people who do move, people who move around.
I mean, a lot of people move around now. Yeah, for a lot of reasons. Yeah, I mean, they leave their homes. They feel like going to a new place. They have to start fresh. They don't feel rooted or connected in a city, in a new place. And it's just, it's that kind of uprootedness that... I find it just right for stories and just how people, how they just become like how they find their own creature comforts, how they find their comfortable places and spaces and faces within a new town or city and how they cope with moving and leaving.
Rhonda:
And yeah, that's an interesting point. It is fascinating because when you think of that, I don't know, that principle that stories are about change. Then wow, there's a lot of scope there, right? A lot of change.
Sara, I've been lucky enough to see some of your work in draft. We were in the same writing group for a little while. And there's this thing with your stories where, you know, you're reading along and then all of a sudden you read a line and you're like, holy crap, I can't believe she said that. Like, it's so true. It's fresh, but it's very true. Like... down to the bones of what it is to be human.
And then when I think about this current collection, like if you sent this collection off to, I don't know, a handful of generals in the Canadian Armed Forces, what do you think they'd think of it?
Sara:
Oh, I have thought about that. And then I think, well, they probably wouldn't read this. I do think that they probably wouldn't be interested in reading.
Rhonda:
You don't think they're gonna pick it up and go, oh, it's a manual on camouflage. Let me read this.
Sara:
No, probably not. I mean, they might, but I just... I have had fear about, especially the ones at the military college, just the idea of when you're in the military and when you're wearing the uniform, you are representing. And so when I was in the military, you were never allowed to speak to the media. And so there is kind of this...
And when I was in the military in the nineties, of course, we didn't really at the military college, there were no cell phones. So what happens in the mess stays in the mess. What happens in the military college stays in the military college. So, you know, I do think about that, but I don't. I try not to let that drive my own motivation for writing these stories, because the purpose is not exposure.
Like the purpose for me in some of these stories, the really military ones, so the serving military ones that might be interesting to, you know, people who are currently serving in the military. I was just curious, I just wanted to explore the world of the 90s being a, you know, if a female in the military, you know, trying to fit in loads of misogyny everywhere.
And so, you know, just the kind of the structure of the military is a masculine structure, you know, it's uniformity and, you know, the military college in particular is this pressure cooker, you know, most people there are. They had good marks and they're athletic. And so they're all, it's very cookie cutter. And so you're, there's not a whole lot of individualism. There's a lot of conformity.
And so being a woman in that environment, there were just, there were some very particular pressures on the women there. And I don't know, there was kind of, ah, it's hard. It's hard. There was like, sometimes I just felt like there was this, the default setting was almost a dismissal or a. like a lack of respect. And so like, I'm not writing about like poignant sexual abuse in these particular stories. I go close, you know, I go adjacent in some of the stories, but I didn't want even that to be, because sexual abuse can really take over a narrative.
Rhonda:
Absolutely, yeah.
Sara:
That kind of trauma can just- And those are important narratives. Don't get me wrong, those are important narratives. But what I wanted to do was really kind of try to examine for myself just what it was like and how that is like just to be a woman in that environment where you're an extreme minority. I mean, there were when I was on courses, there might have been one other girl kind of thing.
So, you know, you're trying to fit in with the guys. You have a lot of really wonderful guy friends, but then you always have that sort of hyper masculinity that is like they're not going to not see you as a woman. You're always going to there wasn't a, I don't know, like you just couldn't really be true to who you were.
And I think that there was a kind of like an oppressive, like femininity was definitely not something you were going to bring to your group or that just would not be, it would not go well, that would not be respected, that would not be supported, and you're trying to be a leader. So that definitely people would not follow someone who's extremely feminine or who's extremely-
Rhonda:
Right, fascinating, hey? Yeah, wow. That's interesting because I think that a lot of writers struggle with the idea that, you know, when we're writing close to the bone, like when we're really trying to tell the truth about what it means to be human and what it is to be human, you know, all the richness of that, that in some way we are exposing things, right? Like maybe we- we pulled a little moment from our family or from someone we overheard in a coffee shop for our Aunt Jeannie who always does this kind of thing. And so we do expose ourselves and we expose other people and systems. And so I think we all feel a little bit like that.
Sara:
I think if you're writing true, like if you're really going deep in a story, you're always exposing something really. Yeah, the exposure will be there. But I just feel like it's the difference of exposure driving the narrative and then exposure being this delicate element of the narrative.
Rhonda:
Right.
Sara:
So when you have a true capture and it doesn't feel performative and it doesn't feel glazed over and it doesn't feel contrived, you know, it feels very real, but you're not doing it to sort of shine a light necessarily. You're doing it to kind of provide texture. You're doing it to provide. you know, just to offer. Yeah, like it's an offering. It's like, this is how it felt.
But it's not about raising the red flags or, you know, it's this, that's kind of, it's delicate. It's really delicate, but you just, I don't want it to be about, you know, you know, getting my megaphone and saying, this is what happened. It's more how it felt. It's what it felt to be in that environment. It's a very particular, unique, nuanced kind of environment. And this is what it felt like to be inside a body of like one story, like one person to make it specific.
Rhonda:
Right. That's what nonfiction is for. You know, you could have done nonfiction. There's lots of interesting nonfiction in Canada about, you know, whether it's being in the RCMP or being in the military. Yeah.
I'd love to talk to you a little bit, Sara, about writing contests. So you've, you've had the great fortune to, to win like several of the, the writing contests and I'd just love to hear, like, how did you decide and just convince yourself to do that?
Because I also, you know, entered writing contests as kind of like a strategy for finishing something, right? There was a deadline, like the deadline was May 1st, you had to have it in, right? So I used it that way. And I thought, oh, well, at least I'll get, you know, usually you pay a fee, you get a subscription to the literary magazine or whatever. Was there something else going on for you? Like what, what did all of that mean for you? What was the first one you won that kind of, you know, just shocked you in such a delightful way, I'm sure.
Sara:
Yeah, I mean, and the other interesting thing, which I'm sure you also understand about writing contests is getting on those lists, the short lists and the long lists. And it is such a boost for a new writer when you enter a contest and then you find out you make a long list and then you see other writers on the long list and maybe you have read those writers in literary magazines and you're like, Oh my God, yes. My story is next to these, you know, these writers.
And so, um, so I mean, I, it was just exciting for me when I, cause I really just started sending work out, you know, on my 40th birthday was when I sent my first story.
Rhonda:
No way. Are you serious?
Sara:
On my 40th birthday, we were on a trip to Winnipeg and it was my birthday and I said, I've just, I've been writing stories, but I'm just going to just send something out. I'm going to make it official and send something out. And then it just, I realized it's actually really easy.
You know, once the story is, once the story feels ready, you know, Submittable makes it very easy. You know, you just kind of, you research the magazines that, that kind of have a connection with, and then you just have your little bio that you write. Like it's really not, the hardest part is getting the story to be ready.
But so I was sending out to a lot of places and then, you know, initially it was indiscriminate. It was like looking at all these magazines and I didn't really know what they were all about. So I was just sending them out and then it started to become more of a fine tune process. So then I started subscribing to these magazines and reading these magazines and recognizing which magazines are more like me, like which magazines are my readers, where are my people, you know, and the stories that resonated with me.
And so, you know, so I just, I was really sending out a lot. I would have two or three stories and I would send them out. And you know, once you send them out, you forget about them. And then you come back with all those rejections and then I would just rotate them and send them out again. So I had a lot. And sometimes you'd be lucky enough to have feedback. And usually after I send a piece out two or three times and didn't get any bites, I would tweak. I would come back and I would revisit the story and tweak the story and send them out again.
And so when I started to get on long lists, that was like, wow, oh my goodness, this is so exciting. And then short lists. And so then it became more targeted. It was like, well, these are the magazines I love. They are publishing writers that I love. They're publishing stories that I love.
And so I really started to target those magazines. And I knew like, so I have a giant spreadsheet and I know all of the magazines I love and which ones, like when are their reading cycles and when are their contests? And I have it, I'm an Excel spreadsheet. I think the person I think you're-
Rhonda:
Oh, same girl, same. Yeah, love and Excel, love it, yeah.
Sara:
And I kept track of which magazines because sometimes the editors will get back to you and they will say, this wasn't a good fit for now, but- know, we really like your work and please send us more stuff. So I would kind of highlight those ones in purple and say, you know, so that would, that would again, make it even more fine tuned. Those would be the magazines that I would target.
So that was kind of the process. I mean, that was over the course of three or four years. And I just, I started to, I was reading more of the stories. I listened to the New Yorker fiction podcast on a daily basis.
Rhonda:
Yeah. You're obsessed with that. You love it.
Sara:
I don't know what I would do. That's my, those are my best friends. Those stories, they are my best friends. The companionship of the story. I was just listening, re-listening to one of my favourites today, Laurie Moore's Community Life, Read by Roddy Boyle. Read by Roddy Boyle, come on. And then he, then him and Deborah Treisman from The New Yorker, they discussed the story. I mean, like. just too good. Oh, yeah. No, it's delightful.
Rhonda:
I think it was you who turned me on to it actually. And then I listened to a couple I was like, oh God, this is good.
Sara:
Yeah. And then sometimes the discussions of the story are just as good as the story. It just really illuminates the story and the process. And then yeah, I love that. But no, I think. Yeah, I mean, winning the prizes is – there's such a small, small chance of winning.
And it's like, I think sometimes it's just as exciting to get on a long list because the chances are so small to get on a long list, the stars have to kind of align. I mean, you don't know how many readers are going to connect with the work.
Rhonda:
But I think you're saying something really important in the literary magazine publishing world, which is about knowing your fit, like knowing which magazines are really for you. Like you, your aesthetic, your understanding of what a story is and how a story works is really similar to the stories that you see in their pages. And so entering that contest, you know, makes a lot of sense.
Whereas I can remember for poetry wanting to, I don't know, I had a group of poems and I thought, oh, I'll enter some contests. And I remember there was a magazine I loved, but they brought in a guest judge. And I just knew that the judge would just, like they were not. not my judge. Like they just, I was never going to win that one. So, you know, you pass on it. So I think there's, there's something so important about fit and not, and just honouring that and not being indiscriminate about it, you know?
Sara:
Oh, definitely. And it is very intuitive. I mean, like I say, the hardest part is the story, like focus on the story, focus on the work. Yes. When it feels ready, just think about that story, like, and where that story fits, And it is so intuitive.
Sometimes I will go to a magazine kind of website and just browse around and I'll think to myself, nah, that doesn't feel like, that doesn't feel like the story. That doesn't, that doesn't feel like a good match.
Rhonda:
Right. So speaking of– sorry, go ahead.
Sara:
You know, because I was thinking with stories as well. I mean, they can be so different, you know, like different poems will want to achieve different things. And different stories are going to achieve different things.
So one story. I have some stories that I would never submit to The New Quarterly. You know, that's one of my favorite literary magazines. And, you know, I just, I know I have a couple of my stories. I know that they wouldn't be the New Quarterly stories. Like they really wouldn't be their aesthetic. So yeah.
Rhonda:
Interesting. So speaking of intuitive, you talk about knowing when a story is ready or when a story is finished. How do you know?
Sara:
It's like this register of, and then sometimes there's different things I'm working on. So I might be piecing together a story and I might be just working on the opening. And I'm struggling with the opening for days or weeks or months. And then it just comes to me, that's it, that is it. Like sometimes all the story needs is like a connection between two scenes.
And I work and think and think and think about that and focus on that and then forget about it and go to sleep on it. And then it will just come to me or sometimes it's the ending that ails me and I cannot get the ending. So I'm just waiting for that ending to come. And so then it will just come. So like, I mean, like I write a lot and then pare back. Like I usually write these big long…
Rhonda:
Oh, okay. I didn't realize that.
Sara:
Stories, convoluted stories. And then I really pare back. You know, I cut any form of sentimentality. I'm looking for the sentimentality. I'm looking for the nostalgia. I'm looking for the cruelty. You know, like I want my characters to be. I don't mind if they're unlikable, but I want to make sure I'm doing them justice.
And so I will write a lot and then I will go in and just chop, chop. And sometimes I will write, you know, and then I will actually chop up scenes and rearrange the order of scenes. So I mean, how do you know when it's ready? Again, that feels intuitive to me.
I just, you know, I get my husband to read my stories. I have a couple of, I have a group of sort of dedicated readers that I will sort of reach out to sometimes. It's not always the same people, like certain stories work best for certain of my readers and I will just say, oh, Alison Frost, can you take a look at this? Or Paola Ferrante, can you take a look at this? Or Kate Zibel, can you take a look at this? And just get some feedback. But yeah, I mean, when it's funny because sometimes I will feel like a story is ready. I would feel so excited. I will manifest like, Oh, I'm going to send this story to wherever it's going to get published or whatever.
And it's just that beautiful excitement of when you first send a story out and it's fresh and new into the world. And then you start to get your first rejections back and it just changes your relationship to the spirit. And you're like, wait, what is going on with this story? I don't understand. Yeah. So. But, you know, just even in the process of putting this collection together and working with Kelsey at Freehand, and she is such an eagle eye. And you work with Kelsey as well for?
Rhonda:
Yes, although my editor was Barbara Scott.
Sara:
Oh, OK. Oh, OK. Mine was Naomi. But Kelsey, you know, we keep going back. Look, I thought the story was ready ages ago. But then once it goes through your... know, your different readers, your editors, once they get picked up at a literary magazine, you go through this proofing process with the editors, which to me has always been an extremely positive experience because-
Rhonda:
Yeah, same. I love being edited. Wait, you're going to work with me to make the story better? That's the most fun I could possibly have.
Sara:
And it's in your best interest as well, because it's your magazine. So that to me has always- and you know, and then the editors that, you know, they work with stories all the time. So they can kind of really see the structural issues and the pacing issues and the language issues and the clarity issues and you know just the vibrancy so like they just take what you have imagined and you know fine-tooth comb.
Rhonda:
Yeah, that is great, yeah Freehand Books is fabulous to work with as an author. I'll put a link to them in the show notes because they do really great short story collections – I find every time that they have a short story collection, I know it's one I'm gonna wanna read. Like they really reach out and grab some interesting things. So.
Sara:
I love them. They've been a delight to work with.
Rhonda:
Yeah. Nice. So Sara, you're working on a novel now. Did you trip over that? And it just like you realized you were in this something bigger than a story, a short story could contain?
Sara:
Yeah. So there was one of my short stories, the military college one. So the one about the mime is called the circular motion of a professional spit shiner. So when I was writing that, it felt like it needed more space. I mean, I really condensed that story. It's just a little, it's just a little blip of a capture, but I wanted when I was in that world and just with that girl, a first year cadet at the military college and her really close friend. a first year guy at the military college, I really wanted to stay in that world and explore that. So I'm doing that now in the novel.
Rhonda:
Wow. And how does that feel? I mean, I know, you know, you and I've done a bit of writing together and you seem very just, you always look very calm. But I don't know, is there anything going on underneath the surface? Like, how does it feel to be working on a novel right now?
Sara:
So right now, it's feeling great, but there's lots of agony and wretched periods where, why? Why am I doing this for free basically? But I'm kind of, well, actually it's thanks to your program, the bootcamp, remember how excited I was.
Rhonda:
Oh yeah, Book Finishers Bootcamp.
Sara:
Oh my gosh, we're messy first drafting, we're messy first drafting. I am learning. the messy first draft. And I mean, I've done a messy first draft for short stories, but with a novel, it is a whole other beast. Right, yes. It is really hard. And I think for short story writers, I would say, I think sometimes it might be even harder because I will write a messy first draft of a short story, but it's not really that messy because I kind of know what's happening. I kind of know where I'm like.
Rhonda:
Yeah, because it's eight pages and you can hold it all in your head at once.
Sara:
Yeah, you know, because it's just sort of a capture, but. But with the novel, it's just, I really have to be patient and just generous and just let myself write crap. Let myself just write and just put things out there that are probably not going to make it to the page, but it's going to create the feeling of the story for me.
And so that's kind of fun now because I have relented and stopped, I'm just, you know, just. running away from any form of perfectionism or not you've stopped trying to write the perfect paragraph and then the perfect paragraph and that's a very long and torturous way to write a novel it is and I don't think that it's it makes sense for me as a writer because as a short story writer I will definitely think about language more when i'm writing because like i really do want the language to be sparkly and you know i don't need the language to be…like it's more just the ideas. It's not necessarily the sentence structure.
Like I know some people who are obsessive about sentence structure. So for me, it's just more like, I love the ideas kind of coming to the page in a way that feels vibrant. But with this novel, I feel like I'm just wanting to get the story on the page. I want the story and just this development. I want all of these layers and I'm gonna come back and figure.
Rhonda:
Yeah, order things. Because there's no point to making language sparkly on page 18 if later on you end up cutting page 18, you're gonna do it later. Yeah.
So I love that word you use though, generous, like being generous. So that's with yourself. But is it also with the story and the characters? Like, is it because often in a first draft, we're trying to understand the story. where it's going, what it wants from us, right?
Sara:
Yeah. Yeah, I totally mean being generous with the story. And you know, sometimes I might be writing and thinking, oh, this is kind of boring, but you know, maybe this is leading somewhere. I mean, if you watch a movie, sometimes there is a section where they're just focusing on someone's knees. And that seems kind of boring, but that was really important because then we need to see that in Poor Things. Her knees were doing that because she was finding pleasure.
Rhonda:
Oh, don't say anything else. I haven't seen it yet.
Sara:
Oh my gosh. Is it? Okay, good. I'm watching it again and again. I want to become like a Poor Things scholar and a Frankenstein. That's one of my main dreams in life is to become a Frankenstein scholar so that like Poor Things is kind of Frankenstein.
Rhonda:
Oh, fascinating.
Sara:
But so being generous, yeah, just kind of allowing, just kind of relinquishing the control. And I mean, you know, like with a short story there, it's very high control in a short story. It is, the form lends itself to that. I think even from, even when you first sit down, I mean, as you say, you are, you can do like the messy first draft of the short story, but, but even then it's, it's so much more contained. Yeah.
And there are particular motifs that kind of, that, that are, are leading the way. Whereas I feel like in a novel, it's the other way around. The story is making its way and then the motifs are surfacing. The motifs are coming out as you're writing. So that's interesting. And I've never thought about that before, but that's me for sure when I write short stories versus writing when I'm writing a novel.
Oftentimes a short story will start with a motif. Like I want there to be maple trees or something, or I want there to be, you know, like some kind of an undercurrent is going to come up in different stories, in different, you know, parts of the story. But in the novel, it's more like the story is introducing itself to me and then kind of introducing themselves to me as the story. And I love those surprises. Like I love that. Oh, oh, okay. Oh, that's what we're doing. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, it's that idea that the story knows more than you do. So good. Yeah, maybe just let it come. Just let it come and also be open to different alternatives.
I think I was listening, I think it was Joy Williams. I was listening to some podcast or an interview with Joy Williams and she was talking about the alternatives of a story. So, you know, when you have a particular outcome, you know, you have your characters doing something or a relationship evolving in a certain way. And then, you know, you get to a point where you think, well, what are three other alternatives to this particular outcome? And that's interesting.
And that also takes generosity because don't just think of the obvious outcomes. Like think of these crazy, outrageous outcomes and let yourself sort of explore that and put that on the page or on the screen. And then maybe you'll take little pieces from that. It's just a really interesting way to kind of shut up the imagination and just get out of your comfort zone and explore and demand.
I find that a lot of writers are afraid to like, are resistant to, you know, exploring alternatives because they think, Oh, if I write that, that's a waste. Like if I write it and I don't use it, it's a waste, but it's not a waste. If you understand what’s possible, let's just say it's like three different alternative endings and you write three of them and you only use one of them in the story. But the other two are still there in some way, you know, like in a, they're like a ghost of an ending in the ending.
Rhonda:
Oh, it's true.
Sara:
Yeah. They will haunt like I think that if the ideas come into the process of creating a story or a novel, like they will haunt, they will haunt that story or that novel. I do believe that to be true. They will still, even if they don't make it, they will still contribute. And it's just considering and just in the process of considering, I will consider this.
I'm reading The Idiot right now by Elif Batuman, I think it is her name. And oftentimes her character says, I considered this, I considered this. And so she will just sort of, you know, I think just the process of considering and deeply considering, just continuing down that road of well, what if this and what if that, that can just lead you down. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. Yeah, and then also, you know, so you've, you know, then you're the writer who explored that, you know, like nothing you write is ever lost. It just isn't, it's always there somehow.
Rhonda:
Yeah. I hear your little guy in the background.
Sara:
Oh my goodness.
Rhonda:
Yeah, that's great. No, that's don't worry about it. I love it. Love it. So Sara, where can people go? I'll put a link. So the book is out when by the time people are hearing this, the book is out. What is it that excites you most about Art of Camouflage being out in the world?
Sara:
My dog is very excited. He's very excited about it being out in the world. I am excited about connecting with readers, to be honest, because I haven't really done that. You know, when you are, you know, I haven't done, like this is my first tour, you know, so I'm excited about connecting with readers.
And like I was saying to a friend, I feel like I want there to be these small, intimate settings. Like I don't want, like I'm going to a few festivals, but I'm more comfortable because I struggled with anxiety. So I'm more comfortable with smaller. Like I love one-on-one stuff, but you know, smaller group settings and you know, just to talk about stories and you know, I was thinking it's like the lives of girls and women in tour.
Like it's almost like I'm going to go where my friends are. Like I'm going, I'm taking the book to a couple of places where I've just reached out to some friends and we're just going to have these small readings in you know, bookstores and libraries and-
Rhonda:
Those are so great.
Sara:
They are. And it feels like this excuse for me to go around and visit my friends and my other, my writer and talk about short stories. How much better does that get?
Rhonda:
Yeah. Great. That's so good. So Sara, as you know, this is The Resilient Writers Radio Show. So I always like to ask people what it means to them to be, you know, if I say, oh, we're, we're resilient writers, or we're trying to be a resilient writer. What does that mean to you?
Sara:
Yeah, I was thinking about that. I have two things. Like, so first, I think it's like staying true to the story. So like trying not to be of that, trying not to be influenced by, you know, what's hot or what's trending or what's going to sell or so that that's me, but I'm a short story writer. So you know, short story collections don't typically sell. I mean, they don't sell anyway. And how liberating is that? Right? You can do whatever the heck you want.
But I do, I think staying true to the story and also in a more practical sense, staying connected to the story. And by that I mean, I do try to write, if not every day, then just like make a little note in my phone, like a voice note or something, like just stay connected to the story because it's like a relationship that you have with the story.
And I feel like if I don't write, if I go a couple of days without, sitting down with the story or thinking about the story. I don't know, maybe it's just my memory, but I lose connection to the story. And that sets me back. That really sets me back. And I get depressed. Right. But I think that being resilient is just staying connected to the story. And even on the days where you don't feel like writing, just say hi to the story. Even just like as you're showering, just say hi, just think about the story, but stay connected to the story.
Rhonda:
Yeah, there's that quote, I don't have it right, but like where Alice Monroe said how much of her writing she did staring out a window.
Sara:
Oh yeah. Yeah, like it's so true. You don't always have to be at the desk entering words into a laptop to be connected to your story, absolutely. It is so true.
Rhonda:
Yeah, no, it's so true. And oftentimes a lot of really delightful surprises come when you're not sitting at your desk.
Sara:
Absolutely. Meant for the page. Like that interaction is dying to be on the page. Page-worthy, as you said.
Rhonda:
Yeah, it's page-worthy. Thanks so much for being with me today, Sara, and good luck with the tour. Have a good time.
Sara:
Okay, thanks. It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Rhonda.
Outro:
Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of the Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes.
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