A Long and Satisfying Journey to Publication
The path to publishing a book isn’t an easy one.
That goes double when you’re learning about what you want to write, what kind of book you’re going to publish, trying to get your book selected by a publisher…
A Long and Satisfying Path to Publication, with Mari Ruddy
The list of bumps in the road to publishing goes on and on, and author Mari Ruddy hit every single one. The entire process of writing her second book took Mari over ten years—but after all her hard work, patience, and perseverance, it’s finally here!
And as you may have guessed, Mari didn’t get published by cutting any corners.
Listen to learn:
- The importance of knowing what kind of book you’re writing
- Why you should pay for an editor, especially as a self-published author
- How much it can cost to self-publish
- The value of having a writing community
Here’s a sneak peek:
[6:54] So I joined this co-working space and I'd go there and I'd go through my personal stories. And it was like, “oh my God, am I really telling all this personal crap in this book?” And then I was like, “Hmm, it IS actually better when I tell my story and I'm more vulnerable.”
[08:12] That's what I need. I need a map because I don't have one in this book.
[12:22] Yeah, and I knew that I didn't have the funds to self-publish. I just flat out knew I did not have that option. And I knew from doing some research that I needed funds to self-publish.
[14:46] And then I realized at the end of the Kickstarter campaign that that publisher wasn't going to support me quite enough.
[19:32] Well, one of the key things that Azul taught me is that you can launch and relaunch and relaunch.
[22:00] And I'm like, “Oh, okay. Apparently I wrote this book for me to read right now.”
[24:16] And I would go to some of the other writing sessions too, because it was so valuable to just have that sense of community and shared purpose.
[25:59] So it was essentially the three minute kind of grounding-centering. I have done that consistently for the whole, you know, 10 years it took me to get this book done.
Links from today’s episode:
Extreme Healing: Reclaim Your Life and Learn to Love Your Body
(eBook available on Nov. 7th, and paperback on Nov. 14th)
A Long and Satisfying Journey to Publication, with author Mari Ruddy: The Resilient Writers Radio Show -- Full Episode Transcript
Intro:
Well, hey there, writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas, and this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love.
Because—let's face it—the writing life has its ups and downs, and we wanna not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page.
This podcast is for writers who love books, and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who wanna learn and grow in their craft, and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books, and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them, writers who wanna spend more time in that flow state, writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community in this crazy roller coaster ride we call “the writing life.”
We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives, and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, writer, I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.
Rhonda Douglas:
Hey there, writer. Welcome back to another episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm so excited today, because I have my friend Mari here. Mari is an author and an amateur endurance athlete who discovered the power of an athletic mindset when she was in her mid-thirties and suffering from diabetes and cancer. Taking on the identity of an athlete reframed, for the better, her entire sense of self.
And along the way she slowly and surely wrote her second book, Extreme Healing: Reclaim Your Life and Learn to Love Your Body. Mari ran a company that taught people with diabetes to be endurance athletes, and she was also a high school Spanish teacher and principal. Mari and her athletic dog, Sam, who's super cute, live and train for triathlons, half marathons, marathons and long bike rides in St. Paul, Minnesota, where she works as an internship coordinator at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities.
So welcome, Mari. Thanks for doing this.
Mari:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's so great to be here with you, Rhonda.
Rhonda:
So, I see the book in the background. If you're listening to the podcast, the book is just out. Like, it's fresh. It's got new-book-smell, doesn't it?
Mari:
Oh, it does. Yes, indeed it does. Yes, yes, yes.
Rhonda: Okay. So, tell us a little bit about where this book started for you. Go back to that first point where you thought, “you know, I think there's a book here.”
Mari:
Yeah, well, it's been a long journey. I first had the idea that I should write a book in 2011, 2010. And it's when I had the company that trained people with diabetes to be endurance athletes. I was like, “you know, I think I'm onto something here. I ought to put some of these ideas in a book.”
And I'd already written one book that was a process-kind of book. And I thought, “well, I know how to teach things. I should just write this book.”
Turns out I had to learn a lot of the things that I intended to teach in this book. And one of my early editors said, “you need to actually consider making this memoir, and not be so teachy, because every time you teach, it's really boring.”
Rhonda:
(Laugh) Don't you love it when memoirs are just like, “straight up, girl, this is a no-go, you've got to go at this a different way.”
Mari:
Right? I mean, the editors really have made a huge difference in this process for me. So, it was a while ago. And I mean, I was fairly diligent for many, many years. I spent a lot of time, because it was 2014, 15, 16, where I wanted it to be self-help. This was kind of before I got a bunch of feedback.
It was going to be nonfiction, and I wanted a publisher. This was kind of before the self-publishing thing really took off. I wanted to do a book proposal, so I took all these classes on how to write a book proposal, and they all said, “don't finish the book.” So I didn't.
Rhonda:
Okay. (Laugh)
Mari:
I just kept writing the book proposal. And I submitted the book proposal to 10 different publishing companies. All of them said no. And I was like, “oh man, maybe this book sucks. No one wants it.” So I gave up for a little bit.
Rhonda:
Okay, that must have been hard.
Mari:
Oh, it was really, really disheartening. That's kind of where I was a little bit before I found you.
Rhonda:
Mm, okay. So Mari did the First Book Finish program and finished her book, the first draft of it, there. So, so good. I'm loving this cover, by the way. But before I get to that, I just want to come back and ask you, what was it like—obviously in order to join First Book Finish, you have to decide, “I'm going to finish this sucker. I'm really going to do it.” So what was it in you that brought you to that point of commitment? Because a lot of people don't get there after that much rejection. You know?
Mari:
Right, and the rejection had really derailed me. I mean, really, I was incredibly disheartened. And at this point, I'd probably written—I'd had one editor, she was the one who said, “you really ought to go the memoir route because you need to tell more of your personal story.” And her feedback was, “the way to do that is to change the focus of your book to be a memoir.” So I was like, “I really want it to be self-help, but okay, okay.”
Before I found you, I had spent over a year by myself in these co-working spaces. Because I had odd jobs at that point. So I joined this co-working space and I'd go there and I'd go through my personal stories. And it was like, “oh my God, am I really telling all this personal crap in this book?” And then I was like, “hmm, it is actually better when I tell my story and I'm more vulnerable.” And so it was, I think, in the fall, I can't remember when it was.
Anyway, someone online had sent me your stuff. And at that point, I think I had 60 or 70,000 words. But it didn't make any sense.
Rhonda:
It was a couple of different books at that point. Yeah.
Mari:
Right. And I was like, “gosh, I have not done the first draft of this book. I have never concluded it.” I didn't have a story arc. It was just a mess. And one of the key things in one of your descriptions of what First Book Finish was, was this idea of a map that you very clearly explained.
Rhonda:
Right, yes.
Mari:
That's what I need. I need a map because I don't have one in this book. And I have no idea how to approach what I've written in a way that made any sense. And I thought, “I don't know how I'm gonna publish it. I just, I don't know. I don't know, but I want this book to be in the world.”
I knew from other things in my life that community mattered. And what you offered was community. You offered this roadmap, which I loved. And you offered this sense of a shared purpose and that there would be this group of us that were committing to this destination. And I was like, “I can do it.”
Rhonda:
Amen.
Mari:
I'm signing up, I’m in, I'm gonna do it. I can remember the first session, being terrified.
Rhonda:
Really? You never seem like the kind of person who's terrified.
Mari:
Well, you know, that's one of my strategies is to always present as if I am not afraid, but I was because it had been, at that point, like nine and a half to almost 10 years. And I had not finished the first draft. And I didn't even know how to do a story arc.
Rhonda:
Okay. Right.
Mari:
And you taught that also. You really sort of explained how to have an arc and how to think about the scenes. I mean, I didn't even know there was such a thing as scenes. I was like, “there should be scenes in this book?”
Rhonda
“What is it?” Okay, that's great.
Mari:
And I had read hundreds—and obviously I'm a reader. I just hadn't heard those terms. I mean, I was a Spanish teacher, so I know a lot about language acquisition. I was like, “oh, there's a lot of writing terminology that I don't know.”
Rhonda:
Mm-hmm. And so one of the things I love about this, so, you finished the book, you sent it out for feedback to beta readers, you got that and you fixed it up again, and then you did this amazing thing. You said, “okay, I'm gonna self-publish,” and you did a Kickstarter.
Mari:
Yes!
Rhonda:
Tell me about that. Why did you decide to do that? Because from time to time, when I've thought about that and I've seen other people doing it, I'm terrified. I think it's like, what if you throw a Kickstarter and nobody comes, you know?
Mari:
Yeah. Well, that's a great question. And part of it is that I have a little bit of a background in fundraising. My father was a professional fundraiser. I grew up in a household where my dad regularly talked about how to fundraise. And I have raised a lot of money for various causes. And I just know a lot of the strategies you have to use, like constant repetition. You have to ask way more than—
Rhonda:
Than you think you do.
Mari:
Yeah. And you have to time the emails at different times of day, because different people open their emails at different times, and you have to get them to open the email and take action, which is different than just opening the email.
So I, actually, a year before I launched the campaign, I started studying how to do a campaign. I went to a bunch of free webinars. I'm the queen of finding free or low-cost anything. Yeah, and I knew that I didn't have the funds to self-publish. I just flat out knew I did not have that option. And I knew from doing some research that I needed funds to self-publish.
I was like, “I’m gonna do this Kickstarter campaign,” but I had to map it out. Like, I did map out my entire campaign. And I mapped it out six months before I launched it, and I created lists of people and like, were they influencers? Were they people I could count on? You know, like I think I had 50 that I thought for sure would do it.
And then I figured out how many I would need at what average donation to get to my goal. Because the way Kickstarter works is if you don't hit the goal, you get zero money.
Rhonda:
Oh right, it's not like a GoFundMe.
Mari:
You have to hit your goal, and no goal, no money.
Rhonda:
But you kept blowing your goals out of the water. What was your original goal?
Mari:
Well, to be truthful, I don't remember.
Rhonda:
It was a couple of grand, wasn't it? Like two, 3000? No, five or six?
Mari:
No, no, it was actually 10,000. It was 10,000 and I figured out I needed 400 people at $25 or $45 to hit that goal. So I'm like, “okay, if I'm gonna get 400 people, I'm gonna have to send out emails literally every day, and texts, and Facebook messages and Instagram direct messages.” I mean, you should have seen my strategy, and I had to get influencers to also promote it. And so I had all that strategy mapped out. I mean, It was a freaking thing.
Rhonda:
And in the end, you did exceed your goal, and then you added… was it an audio book recording or something at the end?
Mari:
I wanted to do that, but I didn't raise enough money. And so the other thing is that I had one publisher in mind. And then I realized at the end of the Kickstarter campaign that that publisher wasn't going to support me quite enough.
Rhonda:
Oh, what kind of support did you feel that you needed at that point?
Mari:
I needed more editing. I knew I needed more editing, and the group that I was gonna go with just didn't offer that. You pretty much had to send them your final, final book and then they would take—
Rhonda:
Right, right. And you wanted more of a partnership in creating the book and getting it out. I love that you did that because I think that editing is the thing that a lot of folks who self-publish, they skimp on it. They decide to do it themselves or have a friend do it. They don't wanna pay for it. It is a skill, man. It is a professional skill, you know?
And so when you actually pay for it, you get it done right and you end up with a book in the market that isn't full of errors that result in people giving you, you know, one-star reviews on Amazon because of all the errors in your book. So it's definitely worth it.
Okay, so that's amazing. I'm so glad that worked out. So, the book is out now?
Mari:
It's coming out. Yep, it's coming. It will go live on Amazon on World Diabetes Day, November 14th. So, that's the day that everyone can buy it.
And so part of the agreement I made with the company that did publish my book, is called Mandala Tree Press, and they're out of Texas. And the man who owns it is a friend of mine from 1996. And we worked together when we were both in education, and we've worked together for like more than five years, training teachers to run these programs in their schools. And Azul is his name. And so we negotiated. I mean, it was a fricking contract that we signed.
And it was a full-on negotiation, royalties, you know, all of that, what they would provide, what they would not provide, what I had to do. And the biggest thing that was the advantage, was that I got three different editors and each editor did two rounds of editing with me.
Rhonda
So did you have developmental line editing, copy editing, and then proofreading?
Mari:
Yep. And three different people that did.
Rhonda:
Wow, yeah, perfect. Cause those different eyes, you know. That's quality, man. That's really good.
Mari: And they designed the cover.
Rhonda:
Which is great. I just want to say, it does not look self-published, right? There are so many bad self-published covers. This one's obviously very attuned to the market. Somebody's done some real work there. It's gorgeous.
Mari:
Yeah. That was really fun. They also helped me with the subtitle because I had a different subtitle. So, the name of the company that Mandala Tree publishing is part of, it's called “Authors Who Lead.” And their idea is they want to work with authors who want to lead in whatever industry they're part of.
Rhonda:
So, it's the book as a platform, the book as an asset to speak a message into the world, right?
Mari:
Yes! And one of the things they're helping me do is establish my speaking career. Because I want to speak to endocrinologists, I want to speak to oncologists, I want to speak to general practitioners about how do they deal with their patients who have chronic health conditions and how do they inspire those people to become athletes?
Rhonda:
Wow, that's amazing. Great, so you have ambitions for this book in the world that go beyond copies sold, but yeah, love it. So, it's out in the world on November 14th, and then I'm assuming, knowing you, you have prepared a marketing plan.
Mari:
Oh yeah. Well, one of the key things that Azul taught me is that you can launch and relaunch and relaunch.
Rhonda:
What?
Mari:
Yeah. It's not a one-time deal. You know, five years from now, if I go somewhere and talk about my book, they don't really remember that the book was published five years ago if the message is still relevant. So, the idea of needing to launch everything on November 14th, meh.
I mean, because I have all this Kickstarter situation, I got shipped 300 books to give to my 200 Kickstarter people. I have all these books in my apartment. It's just hilarious.
Rhonda:
You sent me the unboxing video, and I just love it. It's the feeling of excitement that comes from realizing a long-held dream. You know, despite everything, it is so amazing and it's all caught up in that unboxing video, which is so exciting.
Mari:
Yeah, I'm going to put that video out in the world very soon. First I had to send it to the Kickstarter people, so thank you for being a backer. Because I have all the Kickstarter things to take care of. We aren't putting a huge deal into November 14th, but we are going to put a huge deal into January, because January is when everyone says, “oh, New Year's resolution, I'm going to get fit.”
Rhonda:
“This is the year I'm finally going to do it.” Yeah.
Mari:
Right, so we have a bunch of things planned for that. And, as you know, I got diagnosed with cancer again.
Rhonda:
Mm-hmm. Recently. As you were planning, like, as the books were coming, did the books arrive on the same day that you started taking your meds?
Mari:
Yes.
Rhonda:
It's like the first day you had to take your meds and the books were there. It's like, man. Okay, wow.
Mari:
Yup. And my oncologist, she's like, “your lifestyle has probably kept this cancer at bay for two or three years.” So she's like, “keep doing everything you're doing.” And I'm like, “oh, okay. Apparently I wrote this book for me to read right now.” So that was kind of funny.
The timing was amazing. And it's like, “okay, I'm going to actually do the things that I suggest the reader does.” So one of the things that happened with Azul is that I submitted it to him as a memoir and he had his team read it. And they were all like, “this isn't a memoir. This is self-help.”
Rhonda:
Oh, that's hilarious.
Mari:
(Laugh) Isn't that great?
Rhonda:
So, but self-help often does have a memoir component because people want to identify with you and your story on the way to understanding that you're someone I should listen to because you've been through the thing I've been through.
Mari:
Exactly, exactly. And that's what the first developmental editor really helped me with, shaping my stories. I did have an arc because I did that in First Book Finish. It made sense, what I was attempting to do. And what she helped me do is take the memoir-ish stories and focus them back on the reader. Like, why does this story relate to the reader? And it was like, “oh yeah, yeah.” And it was a different way of how to actually teach.
It used my story as a way to explain and illustrate that people didn't have to go through what I went through to be able to still get the lesson. It was amazing. And the other thing, I want to also say, the other thing that made a difference because doing all these developments—so the whole process took a year. I mean, from the Kickstarter to now has been a year. And the key is being a member of Writer’s Flow Studio.
Rhonda:
Yeah, because you're a host for our community writing sessions. So, there's a couple times a week where you're showing up and writing with other people and holding that space. And you can also do your own writing.
Mari:
Yeah. And I would go to some of the other ones too, because it was so valuable to just have that sense of community and shared purpose. Oh yeah.
Rhonda:
Yeah, yeah, it is the thing I find that community is always the thing that keeps me going, right? Because on the days you just don't want to, you're there with other people and you kind of like, “well, maybe I'll just try. I'll just do a few minutes,” and then the next thing you know, you're into it. So it really does keep you going, which is great.
Mari:
Yeah, exactly!
Rhonda:
Wow, well, listen, I am so proud of you. You've really done something amazing here. I'm really looking forward to watching it take off in the world.
Mari:
Thank you.
Rhonda
I never think of you as someone who struggles with mindset-kind of issues, but writing a book is a long process. So when you were in it, like before you'd finished the first draft, what were the main thoughts that were coming up for you that were maybe getting in the way, and how did you climb over them in the end?
Mari:
Well, that's a great question because one of the things pretty early on, you know, like we're talking 2014, 2015, I had to really get clear. I have this rock that says believe, and it's a heart. And I would often, before I would write, hold this rock and go, “believe in this book, believe in my power to find the words that will make sense.” And I would do that.
So it was essentially the three minute kind of grounding-centering. I have done that consistently for the whole, you know, 10 years it took me to get this book done.
So that was a lot of, you know, “how do I really be focused and really clear that this is worth it?”
Rhonda:
Were you ever like, visualizing the final book?
Mari:
Oh yeah. All the time. And I had a different cover.
Rhonda:
And does the book look like, oh, you had a different idea of what it would look like.
Mari:
But I knew the colors, like I knew blue and orange, with kind of light blue, dark blue. I knew that, but I at first had a picture of me holding a bicycle over my head. And it turns out that is not really marketable to the general public, which is why, what we came up with.
I mean, I definitely did lose hope and I definitely had to keep coming back to “why is this important to me? Remember that this matters, first of all, to me, and it's worth spending time doing this.”
Rhonda:
Absolutely. Love it. So, Mari, this is The Resilient Writers Radio Show, so I want to ask you—I'm asking folks, this season of the podcast—what does it mean to you if I say, “we're resilient writers”? What does it mean to you to be a resilient writer?
Mari:
Well, that is fantastic. I love the word resilient because in my case, it relates to still showing up despite having type 1 diabetes for 42 years, despite having cancer for three times, that I am a writer, that I have a purpose, and I can hang in there, and I can keep showing up. And that I have a whole lot of tools to keep doing that. And that I keep finding community and I keep finding people to connect with to keep the vision moving forward.
Rhonda:
Yeah, absolutely. Mm, love that. Yeah, there's like an inherent kind of resourcefulness in it, right?
Well, thanks so much for being with me today, Mari. And I'm so excited for your book. I'm just wishing you all the best as you get it out into the world. Congratulations.
Mari:
Thanks so much. Glad to be here.
Outro:
Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of the Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes.
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